tv Prime Interest RT August 1, 2013 2:29pm-3:01pm EDT
no doubt whistleblowers will be intimidated and imprisoned by the powers that be at the same time american and western publics are not told who the enemy is that's top secret costing lives in precious treasure don't we have the right to know who we're fighting. to cross not the enemies of the state i'm joined by ty berry he is the washington d.c. director of code pink and in new york we cross to steven lazar he's the host of the radio show making sense with steve lazar right gentlemen cross and items you can jump in anytime you want today mr snowden was given a year asylum steve in russia and on friday we will see we will see bradley manning sentenced for his involvement in leaking so we have two different players two different outcomes your thoughts my friend. you know the one thing that i've never been able to get a straight answer from regarding folks who are supporters of snowden and manning is
here are two guys who signed nondisclosure agreements they're working with the u.s. government to sign nondisclosure agreement saying they're not going to release classified information without permission they find out that there's something going on that they have a moral problem with or at least they think that there's something going on they have a moral problem with the u.s. government has said to them listen even though you've signed these nondisclosure agreements if you feel that you are a witness to some wrongdoing you know some wrongdoing you want to report it here are a few methods that you can use and if you use them you will be immune from prosecution we cannot touch you by law you can go to an inspector general of the department of defense you can tell us congressman or senator if you do that you will not be prosecuted and we will investigate the wrongdoing both of these gentlemen refused to do that they chose the most public and potentially embarrassing method to the united states to do that well maybe you know that's the only way out is we maybe that the way to change thing is to embarrass the u.s. government because it tortures people we know that it's not the only way to change
overnight here on you know you know now having i take issue with it but having a great discussion we're having a great discussion now in the u.s. about privacy we should thank mr snowden for that certainly. yeah absolutely we're having and we should gradually in a conversation about privacy with people on all cut people in all different sides alleging all kinds of different things nobody is really sure what the truth is if we had gone through for instance a congressman or senator and what congressional investigation is this i don't really trust. they had this information it would lying to us for years it took someone else outside the loop to do something tied jump in here because we're having this great discussion about privacy because of mr snowden and his passport has been revoked he's stuck in russia looking for refuge i mean here's he said here oh well first i'd like to thank the i'd like to thank the government of russia for
offering him temporary asylum it was a brave thing to do to confront this imperialist government united states but speaking to steve i'd like to say steve whistleblowers have come for john kiriakou right now is serving twenty four months in a prison in new united states when he brought up the name of those who were tortured in the grave been and guantanamo he brought up one name he's spending twenty four months in a federal prison and at the same time the guy who wrote a book new york times bestseller book on it missing that he was torture is now free running around the united states this is wrong we should can gradually edward snowden we should thank bradley manning and these these people have brought to light those things that i was in the senate hearing yesterday and they were talking about edward snowden and they were the senators were appalled at what they've seen
out of the n.s.a. ron wyden has been saying for years if the american american public knew what was going on behind their backs they'd want change they would be appalled it's time for our government to practice oversight we need are represented. in big washington d.c. to use this power of oversight to get to the bottom of what's going on in the n.s.a. and not blow off whistle blowers bring them in ask them questions find out offer them immunity find out what's really going on in our name in the n.s.a. the privatization of information but again bozell and private organization ninety nine percent of its income comes from the united states government no oversight edward snowden brought to what was what was going on to booz allen to the american public and we should know this information so that we can have a debate in our country about this steve ok steve jump in you know i waded through that whole very nice to look way that you just offered for any attempt at all to
address the point that i mentioned and you didn't you talked about immunity they have immunity if they go directly to a congressman or senator as opposed to embarrassing the united states in the most public way possible you didn't address that. at least you could probably just get the fire going to die and. you know steve if i didn't get dianne feinstein would she would you listen to me listen to me on intelligence what she called security and have me arrested absolutely know what. you think she would absolutely do not then i will tell you this is where the rest of it you know let's go to see if they are not allowed to take return to retaliate tory action against you if you go to a congressman or senator that's that's a law they are not allowed to do that they have to initiate an investigation on your behalf to try to figure out of what you're saying just to try to tell you talked about the us alone as i try to understand these senators are appalled so so what you're actually saying is if snowden had gone directly to senator wyden he
could have gotten the same thing accomplished without violating the no absolutely no and without embarrassing you know no i'm not saying that because why not also took an oath wyden also took an oath not to reveal the. crits that are given to him the over classified secrets that are given to him in sea in meetings so he is not allowed to help edward snowden and not only that he is there are other whistleblowers who have been charged with crimes that the united states government has tried over and over to put in jail they've gone through the levels of of their of their own organisations trying to alert people to the crimes that are being committed in what you get for an organization. of these limits on to a congressman or senator because you can't the process exists and it works i'm former military i was you know there are going to invest and i'm sorry mr general investigation the very high level wrongdoers who were involved in that were punished and forced to leave the only question is you know if you see. it simply
wasn't given a chance here you know that steve the u.s. military commits war crimes atrocities how do you go to them and say help they're the ones committee the atrocities come on the helicopters go to a college you're going to be going over what is going on you know you're going to get from us in a. way you can say that a senator is appalled and is going to work on what you're talking about and then say you can't go to a congressman or senator that doesn't work that's a contradiction i would be you would have me be having a totally different conversation right now if they had done that i would be supporting them i would support i want you i'll tell you what as a journalist i will work with anybody who works in the federal government if they want to blow the whistle i'll guide them through the right process will get their issue resolved and you know what they won't have to hole up in a third country they won't be going to. be listening to you where they if they will be listening to you. i would look at the journalist who's now sitting in jail because he worked with other whistleblowers and i'd be very careful how you proceed
because they will put you in jail they will silence you they will bury you in some cell steve and went to intimidation i promise you that they will not do that if we go through the way that they supposed to be done how do you give it i have purchased a wonderful clip it already has that there is an actual way to blow the whistle if you have classified information there's an actual way to do that how many other countries can say that they have a prescribed way for folks to uphold the laws agreed not to disclose. administration is that of the good with whistleblowers steve come on ok steve give me an example of where a whistleblower has going to have a claim where somebody who is. all right go ahead steve give me an example give me an example of someone a whistle blower who has gone to a government agency who is he hasn't been either fired or demoted or let go
or been vilified in the press or even imprisoned steve. i would throw that back when you give me an example of a whistleblower who has gone to a congressman or senator through the property you know and has actually been he probably a member of the or who his bit was ended up in jail you can't name one. well first of all the one name that pops out to me is bunny greenhouse who went to even went to a committee hearing she got fired she got fired for blowing the whistle on the illegal war in iraq the way they were funding it illegally funding the war in iraq she was fired then they never did anything about that with the whistle blowing that she did what did she gain from it absolutely nothing and she was silenced. and threaten which which congressmen and senators to go but there are others there are many regulars are interested to get. you know but hang on guys hang on hang on guys steve i want to ask you people to commit atrocities do they go do they go on trial
we have whistleblowers going on trial whistleblowers. well how about that guy image many of the guys in the helicopter that shot at a civilian four are they on trial are they on trial. we are actually really glad that you brought out a holiday on trial the other day we are there you are in the trial so what about the nineteen people killed and you sort of course had some of the folks that speak ok can i just want to use the time the other bit of video that i saw of the helicopter ok you had two of the folks of two of the eleven folks who were shot at with r.p.g. is one of them with an r.p.g. armed and the other folks the other person with an a k forty seven in the area of that city that had just seen the most heavy fighting that day so i'm not sure exactly what you want to focus on the helicopter prosecuted for there not to kill civilians and i mean you know it was that journalist steve i think what is it journalists telling the truth that's ridiculous one because it turned there was no
r.p.g. there was no a k forty seven with those immediate people actually i guess i. was on himself julian a son jim self admitted that those folks had those weapons he's not disputing the fact that those folks had those weapons well he questioned what that means what it means to me somebody you know you go after him because i just i'm site see my peers showed the video in a small group in an area that has just seemed to have all right gentlemen tell gentlemen it was good he did it to allow them to turn to go to a short break and after that to a break we'll continue our discussion on the enemies of the united states and mr snowden's fate stay with r.t. . this. is.
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back to cross talk we're all things considered i'm peter lavelle your mind we're discussing america its enemies and mr snowden. ok steve i think it's quite sad that mr snowden had to end up in russia because he didn't want to end up here we don't know if he will be here for over a year he can stay for a year how do you think washington is going to respond because he's seen as a political refugee here and i'd like to point out that mr putin doesn't want to
see this damage relations with the united states he's made that clear on a number of occasions go ahead steve. well i would actually like to see what he alleged investigated fully investigated i may disagree with the way that he blew the whistle here but i think there is a lot of work to be done on the part of the congress and the government to reassure the united states the people the united states that nothing if arius is going on here i would like to see a full investigation i would support that and once again i have not against whistleblowers i am get against whistleblowers doing things in the manner that manning and snowden did if they had done things differently having a totally different conversation and i'd be supporting and maybe maybe we'd be having a totally different conversation of bradley manning hadn't been tortured. well . let me answer to my head of the density answer the question ok torture manning you know i was in the military at
a time when when you got punished with non-judicial punishment you went to something that was called correctional custody where in some cases corporal punishment was allowed these are universally disappointingly things aren't that stupid if you really disappointing me it was torture it was torture come on come on it was torture and mr snowden doesn't want to go so i say today with that i don't think solitary confinement is going to judge said it was torture steve i jump in. just a judge the. tie go ahead. go ahead. well i just it is the one of the pillars i was just going to point out to steve that he should go back to the c.-span and check the hearing yesterday in the senate i was there this was a total cover up the government was not it has no ability to go in and over see what's going on booz allen it's
a private organization they have no capability of overseeing the n.s.a. everything is is redacted they said they sent out some some papers yesterday that fully gave an explanation of what was going on in the n.s.a. ninety percent of it was redacted there were a couple of statements in there that they said this proves that we're not tapping into your e-mails your text messages your bones we're not chasing you and i'm going to tell steve something that i believe i believe that today this government is only in the grabbing stages of this information overload they're just taking the information tomorrow they're going to use it against every single one of us they're going to take a text message from over here they're going to take the location of our cell phone from over there they're going to take an e-mail they're going to take a phone call that was made through it know their person to another person they're going to tie us into some kind of organized dissent in this country and they're going to put you in jail or they're going to threaten you and they're going to
offer you a. time off if you give us someone in this is then their tactic in the country in this government for a long time it's time we end this this war on the american people the war on quote unquote on terrorism and start being truthful with the american public and let's and let's see where this goes again that's really see oversight i would love to see over and steve this is what snowden has done see what kind of conversation we're having right now. this is what he did he did for us and manning did for us it's important. i don't agree i think we've been having the conversation on privacy since about two thousand and six two thousand and seven i wrote an article about this in two thousand and seven i don't think we're having a current conversation i think we have a whole bunch of people going off half cocked and i don't really think as a result anything substantial is going to get done i think this could have been done very differently hope i hope we have a thorough investigation i actually agree with ty on this i hope we have
a thorough investigation i hope we get to the bottom of this i hope we get the truth and i hope we can reassure the american people if there is wrongdoing i hope it's punished ok but if everything is secret how do we know this is a court if everything secret well devise a court was told set the buys a court was told seven years ago that we're doing this in this in this and they were completely alike to even the pfizer court was lied to for seven years they have been they had been even going into our e-mails or taking our e-mail addresses and then they can use it in any way they want to they can going for whatever they want with this doesn't reveal site to snowden seven seven years ago we were that anyone is going to tell you tony they were doing it ministration was literally was steve you know the bush administration pretty much admitted they were going they were warrantless wiretapping and they said it was legal for them to do so under the current conditions i disagreed with that i don't think warrantless wiretapping is is legal in the article i wrote in two thousand and seven suggested that the f.b.i.
cia n.s.a. should push back on any requests to warrantless wiretap and insist that the administration get a five star warrant ok i don't know but and word snowden proved that they did not stop. so what did what difference does it make your article or what the government says they didn't stop they continued with the program steve. yes they did they're not warrantless wiretapping they're getting pfizer warrants now which is exactly what i called for back in two thousand and seven that's actually a massive improvement that gives both judiciary and legislative oversight into what the executive branch is doing that's a huge difference. that oversight they've been continuing an illegal program for for the last seven years they were exposed by edward snowden and now they're going what we really don't but we do and then general hamilton was caught lying i mean general alexander was caught lying to the senate to the senate after an oath and was called a misspoken statement that's called perjury steve if you're getting if i said what
i call additional and legislative oversight that's not illegal you can you can disagree with it but it's not illegal at that point ok but if it's secret how do you know. if you're keeping it even see the word from joe or see her being divisive warrant no. no no the judges who are proving the pfizer warrant they see the entire request the folks in the senate intelligence committee see the entire requests to similar committee in the house gets to see the entire but they can't tell the house whatever cycling they can. they can't tell the public can they and not only that the ability to the n.s.a. was different i mean the intelligence they were not really using it correctly picking out those individuals. steve that the n.s.a. was saying we yes where were blanket lee wiretapping everybody but we're really only focusing on these few individuals but then when it comes out they know we know that they're taking one person's phone call and connecting it to another person
three hot as we're in the senate hearing three hops and they can connect pretty much everybody in the united states and i said i'm going to reserve seven but i want to ask you what is the future of whistleblowers steve you know mr snow is going to be in moscow for a while what's the future of whistleblowers in the united states are good people going to take take take him as a you know that's that's a role model or something to fear go ahead. i would tell any whistleblower potential whistleblower who might be watching this you're doing something very important i want them to blow the whistle i want them to do it the right way if they're if they're willing to contact me i'll help them do it i think we need to know as a country as a people if people if the government that is supposed to serve us is doing illegal things or immoral things i don't think it needs to quash the intent of anybody who wants to blow the whistle it should say though if you're going to do it use the right procedure use a congressman and i actually blame the journalists involved who didn't advise them
to go through the right procedure there's still a story there if you assist somebody to go through the right procedure you can still get the wrongdoing addressed and i haven't seen a verified situation where somebody went through going to a congressman and explaining to them what was going on mr and we're going to. help you he will not the washington post time can i can i just say that steve you're pretty naive in this. whistleblower go right into prison or. be like. jeremy hammond you know they're held in isolation they're they're in prison aaron swartz is now dead from a whistle blowing or for trying to get information and whistle blow you know what do what do all these guys have in common they're all young people young people who have now have grown up with the internet they've grown up with e-mails they've grown up under this war on information in this country and these kids these young
people are not going to be deterred by this by the government i think they're going to continue this opening up of our democracy which is very vital for us to get the information we need to keep a democracy going i think they were they were. hoodwinked into getting into the into volunteer to go into a. iraq or afghanistan and they found out the truth and you're going to see more and more and more of these whistleblowers coming out i don't think that what's going on with bradley manning this brave soul and edward snowden a hero is going to deter the young people from wanting the truth to come out wanting an open fair and free environment where they can speak their minds fair enough steve what do you think. obviously you know i've said this a number of different ways vesta gate the one instance that you think was an instance where somebody went to the congress and was punished if i'm wrong about that whole issue of public apology to you and i'll explain that to my listeners on
my radio show i don't think i'm wrong i think if you look at it everybody who has gone through trying to approach a senator or congressman has not been punished in any sort of way and i would encourage people who want to blow the whistle to do it but go through the right procedure i'll help you if you contact me time to give you the last word in the president go ahead ever contact i have one one last word with steve have you ever contacted jessica rabbit. you should talk to jessica rabbit she will give you the information they're not sure you got whistleblowers that have been colleen colleen rowley i mean there's all kinds of whistleblowers out there that have been. terminated by the government or have been. silenced and you if you talk to jessica rabbit or colleen rally bell point you in the right direction all right gentlemen since middle whistleblowing needs to continue listening to mr daniel in a general sense this is mr snowden is probably going to be in moscow for a while maybe i'll have among them crosstalk we've run out of time many thanks to
my guests in washington and in new york and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r t c the next time you remember. these. she could lumber tour. was able to build the world's most sophisticated robots which will unfortunately doesn't give a darn about anything tim's mission to teach creation why it should care about humans and. this is why you should care only on the dog call.
whistleblower edward snowden has left the transit. to being given temporary asylum in russia. the white house. not to attend a summit with russian president vladimir putin next month expressing its extreme disappointment at the news. the documents released by edward snowden shed light on deep ties between u.k. and u.s. intelligence agencies it turns out washington's been splashing out millions to help britain close one.